We’d be remiss if we did an issue of firsts and didn’t include the first. Long before becoming the first/only Black International Mr. Drummer and even longer after, he’s been a unique and renowned player in the San Francisco Leather and BDSM scenes. I got to sit down with him brother to brother, to hear tell in his own words–unfiltered and unedited–the evolution of Graylin Thornton. -Darkqwolf
“If It’s Gonna Be An Evolution You Have To Know What Was Before…”
Darkqwolf: Graylin– have you thought about this at all?
Graylin: I’ve thought a little bit about it but I didn’t want to think too much. Because I wanted [it] to be spontaneous–my real reactions–instead of something I’ve thought about.
Darkqwolf: What I mostly wanted to do is, the two of us just sit and talk and what comes out is what comes out. I don’t want it to feel like an interview – I want it to be more storytelling.To that point, what do you want to talk about? The theme is ‘evolution’–do you wanna talk about Graylin then? Do you wanna talk about Graylin now? The in-between?
Graylin: What if we talked about some of the then and then some of the now? Because if it’s gonna be an evolution, you have to know what was before…
Darkqwolf: Then starting out with Graylin ‘93 – International Mr. Drummer….
Graylin: …It’s interesting when I think back on it now because I feel that I was trained for that. I started very young in the Bay Area. I grew up in San Mateo which is 20 miles south of San Francisco. So I had access to San Francisco – which I thought all of the United States was like San Francisco. I was running up to San Francisco and I was meeting people and I joined the leather club that was based in San Jose. Then from that I started meeting people that are the big names now– Alan Selby, Vern Stewart, Mr. Marcus, Tony De Blase and all of those people. I was a young leather boy hanging out with them, learning and learning and learning…and I didn’t understand that at the time. I was just doing what they told me to do because I was a young Black kid from the south and they were older and I did what people told me to do without question–that took a lot of trust. And so by the time I ran for Mr. Drummer, I was ready for that because I had been with these people for years and years and years, even though I was young. You hear about people studying for contests and prepping and all of that. I did no prep work because I knew everyone and all of their knowledge. So I just pretty much walked in and did my thing and I didn’t understand the significance at all – I looked at myself as ‘just another title holder, I’m doing these things, yeah I know I’m the first Black…’ – but it never occurred to me that I would be the only ‘Black…’, and that’s really sad. I thought that there would be others coming up behind me. And so that’s a disappointment that I have.
Darkqwolf: When you say ‘the significance’–the significance of your being the only Black International Drummer?
Graylin: Yes–well at the time I didn’t know I’d be ‘the only’, but I didn’t understand the significance of being the first. I didn’t understand that impact. And I hear about it today – people still message me and tell me that [it] had an impact on them. It just happened on Facebook the other day and I’m flabbergasted because it never, ever occurred to me. I looked at it as ‘oh I won the international title. Yay.” That’s all I thought it was…
…It took a stern word or two from Vern Stewart. Vern was living in San Francisco at the time. I said earlier I reported to these men regularly and they would call me at work at Brush Creek Media, and tell me to come to their office and that’s exactly what happened. Vern called me at work and said ‘when you’re off work come to my office’. And I knew exactly what it was about. So I went to his office and in typical Vern fashion, he let me stand there in silence for a few minutes, then he lowered his glasses, looked over them and he said “This isn’t about you–none of this is about you. Everything that you do affects all of us.” It had never even occurred to me… It hit me, one, because I knew I had disappointed Vern and that’s just not something I wanted to do. It impacts you when you look at someone who believes in you and you can see that they’re disappointed – I never wanted to do that again. That’s when it hit me, that moment of “this is important, and it’s not me- It’s about what this represents to other Black and brown people.” It amazes me that it still carries through today.
“I Was A Mr. Drummer And That’s Based On Sex…”
Darkqwolf: Once you realized the responsibility behind it, were you able to carry that responsibility and at the same time enjoy being a Leatherman who’s got this title?
Graylin: My responsibility was to show other Leathermen that they could enjoy themselves and be responsible, especially men of Color. I was a Mr. Drummer and that’s based on sex. I wanted Black men especially to get away from the shame – stop thinking that it’s a “white thing.” Let’s get out there – We deserve to do it. We deserve BDSM too. So, that became my responsibility–to show people how fun it was.
Darkqwolf: It’s so funny that you say that because literally one of my questions for you was, “when did you know you were into “that nasty shit?” You know exactly what I’m asking!!
Graylin: LOLS! You know….. And the funny thing is I know exactly the moment. And it’s going to surprise you.
So yeah, I told you I was growing up in San Mateo and there was an adult theater in San Mateo. It was the little hole in the wall, the shameful one right? By the time I was 16, I had been going there for a couple of years, just sitting in the back watching adult porn because I was fascinated. I just thought it was the coolest thing and I wanted to learn. So eventually “The Story of O” showed there, and I equated being a slave – being owned – with being the most valuable thing that you could ever give a person. And so I wanted to be that – I wanted to be that valuable that someone else would want me. Then shortly after that I saw “Mandingo.” And in my little mind, I put the two together. I took from Mandingo his pride and his strength and his beauty, and all of that [which] showed whenever he was just standing there. He was such an amazing man. Despite everything else that was happening in the movie I looked at him as a role model – ‘he can go through all of this and stand there’ – I wanted to be that as well. That shaped me into BDSM – I already knew what I wanted and I went looking for it. So I purposely went to San Francisco because that’s what I wanted to find. I wanted to be owned.
Darkqwolf: So lemme ask you–how come you’re so free? Because a lot of us aren’t…it’s not easy for men of Color to find that in fetish.
Graylin: You know, I grew up that way. [Growing up] in San Mateo….my parents did not have a lot to do with raising me. So I was on my own a lot and I was allowed to do things that no 10/11/12 year-old should do. But I had these godparents–they’re still my godparents–and they’re hippies. Like hippies–still 60s hippies. They’re Jewish–so they’re old Jewish hippies now–and they would take me to the nude beach once I turned 12. They took me to a nude beach because they wanted me to see…they took me to see the Ike & Tina Turner Revue…they would take me to all the protests. So that’s what my childhood was, just being out there and seeing nudity and protesting and being active. So yeah, that’s how I’ve always been because I didn’t know that there was anything different.
Darkqwolf: What I’m hearing is, you had the luxury and the privilege of growing up outside the Black church….
Graylin: Mm-hmm, although we went to one. My parents…certainly my mother, still goes to the Church of Christ. But I was a realist and I could put all that together in my head. I can believe in God and believe he created me just the way he wants me to be for whatever reason that is. So I was able to rationalize all of that in my head because I was so free and I could think freely.
“An Evolution That Needed To Happen…”
Darkqwolf: You were pretty fucking’ evolved then – it bears the question: so what’s been the evolution? Was there even an evolution that needed to happen?
Graylin: There definitely was an evolution that needed to happen. I needed to find the joy again and…find the fun. I definitely lost it. I lost it…
I think the first thing that happened was the loss of all those men who raised me, and knowing that I had a responsibility still to carry on–because that’s what they would have wanted. I burnt out – I stopped having the fun that I’d started with when I was Mr. Drummer. I lost the joy…I lost friends…the AIDS epidemic really really hit us hard in San Francisco. I was in my late 20s/early 30s, losing all of my friends and that takes a toll on you. Because we didn’t mourn – there wasn’t time to cry. You just moved on and kept working and all of that. So I think that after a while, it all became that, it all became ‘the work’ and I wasn’t having fun anymore. So I say the evolution…has been discovering young people who are excited about BDSM and then that makes me excited. Definitely the young people….they’ve lit a spark. Because they’re different…
I live in San Francisco–they find you… they just show up, and it’s beautiful. I said earlier I didn’t understand the impact that this had and it amazes me when young people know who I am. Now I do a podcast with Kristofer (Weston) and Race (Bannon) so they see more of me. But yeah, it just amazes me and they want to learn. I think that older people have this misconception that younger people don’t want to learn…they don’t want to hear from us. They may not take all of our suggestions or may not understand why we did things the way we did. But they want to know why it was that way, and then they can make their own decisions. But I talk to younger people all the time now who are asking me questions.
Darkqwolf: As Black men, it’s hard for us to not bring the socio-political into the sexual. How do you leave all that behind or leave it outside the dungeon walls and just have a good time?
Graylin: That is a very good question. And I know a lot of younger people struggle with that. I don’t struggle with that because I grew up in the most political time there was–I mean we were dying…you don’t get more [political] than that. The government wasn’t doing anything to help us. So our escape was the dungeon–that was the only place that we could go and leave all of that behind. And through play, I think that that helped us grow closer to one another. It helped us deal with our own demons – you get a flogging for 45 minutes til you’re broken and other things are going to come out of that. So that’s how we survived that…I still operate that way. When I’m in the dungeon, I have to leave everything else behind because that’s my escape from the real world. The dungeon for me is fantasy – it’s not just a big old empty room with crosses and shit in it–that’s where the magic happens. So when I walk in there I want the magic.
“I’m Just Playing And Having Fantasy With All Of The Things I Do…”
Darkqwolf: So what’s exciting you today?
Graylin: I’m listening to other people and I’m watching what other people are doing. I went to my first straight play party just two years ago and I was fascinated– just like when I said I was fascinated with porn, it hit me the same way. I wanted to study them…I wanted to see what they were doing. I realized that what they do is fantasy. Race (Bannon) actually explained that it’s because they live in a world where they might be husband and wife or whatever. There’s some kids. There’s a dog. There’s a mortgage. There’s all that stuff. So when they enter a play area, they leave all that behind because they need to fantasize and that’s what they’re doing. That’s what I started doing. I started thinking “how can I make play more fun – let’s add some fantasy to this!” Now pretty much every time I play has some sort of fantasy aspect to it. It could be costumes–there are costumes–there are sets…there are all of these things, and I do that once a week–set day and a time–and it’s always something exciting. It could even just be roleplay like, ‘I’m gonna pick you up on a corner, I’m taking you to the seedy motel, I’m gonna drop you off and a john is gonna come in there’–and I could be the john–and it just takes on this whole different meaning. So yeah. I’m just playing and having fantasy with all of the things that I do.
Darkqwolf: And the blacklight scene (in the next spread) –what was the fantasy there?
Graylin: You know that came about because I’m known for wax play here and I got bored with it cuz I have been doing it forever and stopped for a while. All these people were just like ‘can you come to my party and do a waxplay scene?’ and I burnt out… So in the effort to excite myself about it I looked at different types of wax – I came up with the UV wax. I tried it and I thought ‘well it looks cool, but I can’t really see it – like next time I do this I want to take pictures’. My brother Johnny, who is brilliant with rope and he loves rope, we talked about doing something together and that came about. But I approached it differently because…I never understood rope. I never understood why people did rope. To me it was a means to just tie somebody up, to restrain them, so you could do something else, and never thought of rope as being “the thing.” Johnny explained it to me as something beautiful and you’re looking at something that you’re creating. So with this one, I took that into consideration, like I want to just create something beautiful with the S/M all there. The wax is still hot (in fact, he got a scab from that one!)…the bondage was still there. It was still…semi-uncomfortable. So all those elements were happening and we created beautiful pictures. That was just….that special to me, to have that kind of a goal. Because normally when people go into a dungeon, you don’t really think about the end effect. You’re gonna do a flogging, you’re gonna do this, you’re going to do that and then it’s over. Then you do some aftercare, then you go get a milkshake. So just to think about ‘I want this to look a certain way and just be beautiful at the end’, it’s something again, I took away from some of the straight play parties, Because that’s, again, how they play.
And it’s all real–the passion in those shots are all real. We all know each other. It had occurred to me for a second, ‘should I ask some man of Color to do this with me just because…?’. Then I thought no, because I want that chemistry there and so since we all are very familiar with each other, the chemistry is there and it shows through. I forgot even the camera was there. I mean once we got started we were just doing the thing…
“We Have To Allow Ourselves To Play…”
Darkqwolf: For me, DRUMMER needs to be this one place in the world where a guy can just go to get off or get whatever he needs, or just get away for that matter…
Graylin: You made me think of this funny point. When I first started looking at DRUMMER I was 19 in ballet school. I remember looking at the magazine and thinking ‘these are some of the most unattractive men I’ve ever seen’. But I was still so fascinated with what they were doing and when I think about it, the chemistry between those people, because they were just all real BDSM players– they weren’t models. Just looking at how they were and their chemistry together it helped me realize that leather and BDSM, it’s not really about the physical self. I say this to my ONYX kids all the time—because Tony De Blase said this to me and I quote him–he said “don’t play with the hot guy.” He said that at one point – because I was near him and I was eyeing this guy at a Chicago Hellfire Club party – Tony said to me ‘don’t play with the hot guy’. I understood that it meant, play with the guy who has the experience because that’s where you need to set your benchmark, with the guy who knows what he’s doing. If you go for the hot guy you may not get that benchmark and it may turn you off the things, so play with the people that you may not play with otherwise, because they know what they’re doing – they’re older they’ve been around, they can show you how to do things. That’s how I grew up, with that mentality – try things – and so now once again, I’m trying new things, thinking outside the box. I’m hoping that when people look at this interview and they look at those pictures – I mean sure we’re just doing rope and wax. But if you look at them, everything …there’s a mood there sitting in the chair, smoking a cigar, watching all of that–a whole mood is created and it’s real. I mean we’re living in a fantasy there, but it’s real. I “felt like” I was sitting there smoking that cigar because I was and “watching” this thing because I was. We could do bigger and better things if we just let our imaginations go and get away from that shame that we feel around sex and everything else. Just like, let it go – live out those fantasies. Why not?
I think we have to allow each other to do our own things, without everyone else having an opinion of what we do. I think we bring so much [extra] into BDSm/Leather that we forget why we’re here; we forget that it’s called play, and so we have to allow ourselves to play. That’s how we get through the day. We just have to allow ourselves to do that.
Author: DRUMMER
Photo Credit: Kegan Marling